Fate/Zero – 11 Review

Episode 11 – The Grail Dialogue

You know that an episode is going to be pretty heavy-handed on the dialogue when the episode title essentially sums everything up by stating it. Thankfully, the animators had decided to throw in a nice short action moment towards the end to make things exciting.

One can’t help but be moved by Rider’s pep talk about kings in this episode. With his epic roar, I too felt like shouting out my enthusiasm. But as much as I had loved seeing Rider taking on a main role in this episode, it was still sad that the episode had essentially amount to nothing.

Review

Although I had really enjoyed this episode quite a bit, the episode had a few fundamental problems.

The first is the suddenness of the setting. When was this meeting meant to have taken place? From what I had gathered, this had taken place between the time of Lancer having ran away from Kirisugu after the battle in the castle. Which brings up another problem and that is, when did the chase (carried out by Rider and Waver) after Caster occur? I had originally thought that it was after the castle incident but it seems like it was probably before the castle incident and right after Caster had left his lair to find Saber at the castle. Either way, the episode had started off without any warning of when the scene had happened and it had essentially messed up my concept of time in this series.

Then we have the next problem. Nothing had happened in this episode. As I have mentioned above, I did enjoy the whole chit-chat about Kings but it is starting to look like we won’t be getting anything much out of the series until the next season of Fate/Zero. Apart from the chase after Caster, everything else seems to be some sort of filler-like episode or an episode that simply builds up the characters as oppose to pushing the plot of the War forward.

Now moving onto the more positive side of things….

The Banquet

Although the episode was a dialogue heavy one, the execution (mostly due to the music) and superb voice acting on the part of Rider’s VA had definitely created a nice atmosphere that had slowly built itself up towards the revelation of Rider’s Noble Phantasm.

It was hilarious to watch the “banquet” happen in the middle of the debris of the aftermath of a battle, since only a character such as Rider, who is so confident and absolute in his beliefs, would allow such a situation to happen without any care for what had just happened at that location. I definitely hadn’t mind the way the writers had used Rider as an excuse to allow us to learn more about the individual character’s personalities and their reasons behind the drive for the grail.

The contrast between the 4 present parties were definitely an interesting sight to behold. On one hand we have Rider who presents us with this image of a King that is confident in his decisions and his ability to lead. He essentially is the picture of what a cliche image of what a powerful, strong, untouchable leader should be. In contrast to Rider, we have Saber who is this “weak little girl” that is overly sentimental without any leadership skills and is filled with the righteous beliefs of saving everyone. Sitting on the side is Archer who is manipulative and is a mixture of the other 2 characters – he is the image of a lone ruler filled with the confidence and dictatorial attitude of Rider. Naturally, the 4th party would be the always elusive Assassins who honestly is the most “un-king” like in the situation. It was no surprise that they were not willing to join the party.

I had really love the way they had used the sharing of the wine as a device to portray the individual personalities of the involved parties. Saber’s acceptance of the wine had showed her “kind” and “trusting” nature. Archer’s attitude of bringing out his own wine was definitely funny to watch since his self-centered-mightier-than-thou attitude always cracks me up. Assassin’s actions and Rider’s open-mindedness is self explanatory through their attitudes and treatment of the symbolism of sharing a drink.

The True Kings are…

The whole episode was pretty much a breakdown of the individual character’s ideals and a discussion on what makes a true king.

Perhaps it was the manner in which Rider had exclaimed everything, but by the end of his talk, I was yelling “Yeah!” to everything had said. =P For all I know, he could have screamed “We will rule the world wearing no pants!” and I would have screamed “Yeah!” as well. =_=” His enthusiasm and “natural” leadership qualities makes it easy to see how he was able to lead an army to victory. After all, his noble phantasm is proof that he must have done something right to have garnered such a following.

Speaking of noble phantasms, it had sounded like he was mumbling gibberish as he was saying the name. Lol! I had to do a double take when the words “Ionian Hetairoi” had appeared as what I heard hadn’t sound like that at all.

Back to the talk about kings. I was really glad that Rider had picked out Saber’s attitude as being like little girl and had criticized her behaviour. Although I wouldn’t say that I fully agree with Rider’s idea that a king should never regret their decisions, I definitely find Saber’s attitude to be much more unappealing. Rider ideal of a tyranny has it’s unappealing aspects but he is right in saying that a leader shouldn’t dismiss those who have sacrificed their lives by regretting their decisions. Sabers attitude really annoyed me when she had said that she had wanted to turn back time to save her country despite the consequences that would have resulted from her actions. I can’t fault her for wanting to protect the country under her ruling, but I hate how her sentimental ideals come across as being all nice and pure when she is sacrificing a mountain of lives through her actions.

As for Rider. I am definitely loving the man’s attitude! (“Go Rider!”) =D

I liked the fact that Rider’s real wish was for something more simple and down to earth – all he had wanted was to be reincarnated. It was really suiting for his character and it does explain how his fascination with the real world ties into everything. The fact that he wishes to use his body to conquer the world is very Rider-ish in manner and after this episode, I feel like he might stand a chance running for presidency with the way he gives his speeches. =P

Of course I can’t leave out Archer. The end of the episode had once again proven to us that Archer is a manipulative character. He had assured Saber that her beliefs were not utterly wrong, as though he was trying to set her down the path towards destruction. It was especially two faced of him since he was the one who had first laughed at Saber’s wish. I am seriously hoping that Saber doesn’t form some sort of attachment to Archer simply because he had implied to have backed her up on her idealistic thoughts. I would like to think that she is not a naive character  since she doesn’t come across as being that way.

Others

Here’s a few random points that I had noted on the episode:

  • When Rider had smashed in the barrel of wine and had drank out of it, the first thing that came to mind was the fact that he might be drinking wood splinters. =D
  • The animation of the characters were a tad odd as the characters faces’ had looked slightly distorted when they were having the banquet on the ground. The faces had appeared either too sharp or too squished and the angles hadn’t come across well.
  • The contrasting views on what a King should be like had me questioning which servant’s idea was right – Saber sees a King as a person that needs to sacrifice themselves, but Rider sees it as being the opposite. Rider believes that Heroes are Heroes because they are tyrants. Saber also believes that a King should be alone, where as Rider is the opposite and believes that a King is never alone. Hmmm…

  • When Rider had started to criticize Saber’s behaviour as one that was unlike a leader, Saber’s face is overcast with a shadow from the clouds in the sky. Despite the “convenient” timing of the shadow, it was still a nice moment to have the shadow reflect Saber’s internal turmoil at that moment.
  • I definitely love the epic-ness and extravagant feel of Rider’s Noble Phantasm. I can’t believe that he is able to conjure up a Reality Marble.
  • It was funny that the fight between Rider and Assassin had turned out to be something so basic with horses, swords/arrows, and a bunch of war cries. =D (But it was still fun to watch.)
  • How is one meant to kill Assassin?

Overall, despite the fact that nothing had happened in this episode (and when I say nothing, I mean that nothing that would progress the main plot further had happened in this episode), the episode had provided us with an insightful view on the highly contrasting beliefs between Saber and Rider and had also cement the fact that Rider has no respect for Saber and that this means that he no longer see her as a worthy opponent for the Grail thus she is now a full fledged “enemy” in Rider’s mind. Hopefully, next week would bring us back into the present following Caster instead of leaving us trapped in the past.

Episode Rating: 7.5/10 – Go Rider!

-ra

Ra’s Fate/Zero Question of the Week:

Being given the chance of having Saber or Rider as your King to rule over you, which one would you choose?
(If you had to choose one)

Personally, I think that I would agree more with Rider’s beliefs. Sure, Saber might be more peace loving, but I think that people need to be govern (and Rider does seem to treasure his people to an extent).

About Saranaufogus

An Anime fan who can't seem to keep her thoughts to herself. Find me on: Instagram | Twitter

Posted on December 11, 2011, in Anime, Fate/Zero, Reviews and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink. 28 Comments.

  1. Assassin is dead. Yes, just like that. He was just cannon fodder.

    I think they will explain it next episode. It should have been explained in this one but due to some time costraints (tv broadcasting) some scenes were cut off in TV airing.

    And this was after the attack on the castle. Basically Rider and Waver destroyed Caster’s workshop during his attack.

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  2. First of all, as to who i would want as my ruler, without a doubt, Rider.
    (this episode took place after episode 10. after Rider and Waver left Caster’s place Rider decided to come to Saber’s castle to drink and talk)

    Secondly, i have to heavily disagree with you that this is filler, which is to say that it isnt. At all. The dynamic between these three kings is important for there characters, especially Saber, who got IskanTOLD this ep. It shows that Alexander and Gilgamesh get along somewhat. Also, Assassin died. As in for good. One servant down. They cut out a scene where Tokiomi is obseving the three kings and decides to have Kirei use a command spell to order the Assassin’s to attak Rider and force him to expose his trump card. Thus all the Assassins were at the castle, caught in Ionian Hetaroi and slain.

    The animation quality in this episode really angered me. They made Rin’s anime original filler episode last week super pretty, but when we get to the Mad Feast of Kings that so many people like me have been waiting for they cut the budget and give us really weird faces!? At least Rider’s Ionian Hetarioi looked good. What makes Rider’s trump card so powerful, is that its not just an army of mook soldiers, the entire army are all heroic spirits like Saber, Rider and Archer. Its a literal army of heroic spirits, with each soldier being a low level spirit that doesn’t need a master, which is pretty damn badass.

    I was really looking forward to this episode. This was the scene in the novel that completely changed my opinion of Rider. Up till this point i had thought he was kind of cool, and hilariously funny, but it was only here that i realized how awesome he was and became a real fan of his character. He makes a lot of good points with Saber, bluntly spelling out everything that is wrong with her kingship and her wish to the grail. He basically says everything Shiro says to her in the Fate route of FSN, and he does it in a single scene!

    Then his army really proves her wrong about being alone. Unlike Saber, who could never connect with her people, and ruled as a solitary emotionless king, Rider’s men were so devoted to him that they return to him even after death! Its not only devotion from them to Rider either. Its stated that the only way that Rider who is not a mage can make the reality marble is because he values his soldiers as much as they value him, and the combined mental strength of Rider and all his men create Ionian Hetaroi. Rider is truly never alone, because anytime he needs them, his people will be there, answering his call. That was really awe inspiring to me.

    Sorry for the super long comment, but i have been looking forward to this episode 😛

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    • Just when I decided to write a lengthy text, I F5’d and saw yours… damn.
      Pretty much everything said I wanted to say, though I don’t want Rider to be my ruler.

      Sad to see Archer’s lines were cut, but I’ll buy the bluray anyway, so that won’t really bother me(though I was also looking forward to this episode and was disappointed in the end). It’s also the first time where he lusts for Saber, after seeing her defending her views as king. That’s probably the reason why he encourages her to follow her beliefs. FSN-anime viewers might remember him wanting to marry Saber. ;D

      None of the three kings would be a king I’d follow, to be honest. But if I HAVE to choose one, it’s Saber. What she needed was a loyal friend by her side who can understand and help her, like Archer had Enkidu and Rider had his PEERLESS ARMY. Her ideals weren’t wrong, but she pretty much became her ideal which led to her downfall.

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    • @takashid

      Well, I had thought that nothing had happened, didn’t know that Assassin was dead and something had actually happened apart from character development. I had always seen it in such a way that they were always going to fight one another so what had happened in this episode was nothing but to solidify the characters’ personalities in our minds. =)

      As for the animation quality, I feel the same way too. =) It is definitely a pain in the butt to see how lazy they had gotten, but I am hoping this just means that the team was busy making the next episode better looking and more epic. =P
      (what’s the world without optimism right?)

      “He basically says everything Shiro says to her in the Fate route of FSN, and he does it in a single scene!”

      And that is why I love Rider. He was so awesome and blunt in this episode, and he hadn’t just said empty words with nothing to back them up with.

      “Sorry for the super long comment, but i have been looking forward to this episode 😛 ”

      it’s fine. =D Love long comments. =)

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    • @Leurc

      Archer’s lines were cut? That explains his silence. He was too quiet for his character. =P

      “Her ideals weren’t wrong, but she pretty much became her ideal which led to her downfall.”

      Hmmm, that’s true but what do you think she could have changed in order to salvage and benefit her kingdom instead of it leading to her downfall?

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      • Well, considering Morgan got pissed off at both Arturia and Uther after Arturia took the throne, and made Mordred as a consequence of that, even if Saber had changed there were still going to be some major problems.

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      • Not so many of Archer’s lines were cut. He doesn’t feel like he needs to explain why he is the best suited king. And you see him more mocking Saber and laughing at her(you could actually here in his voice in one scene that he was laughing just a moment ago), that’s basically all. ufotable shows more of his facial expressions than to let him talk. Might be added later in the bluray version.

        “Hmmm, that’s true but what do you think she could have changed in order to salvage and benefit her kingdom instead of it leading to her downfall?”

        There is no real ideal solution that leads to salvation. However, as already pointed out, she willingly casted off her human emotions to become an ideal king for her people, until one of her knights left, declaring King Arthur doesn’t understand human emotions. Rider already said it, she is a martyr, she is too selfless and sacrificed her own life for her people(in other words, her own life has no meaning).

        And she follows that path in the “Fate”(her) route, the one depicted in the FSN anime. I don’t really know how she exactly should have led their people, since she didn’t want to be a tyrant. At that time, a democracy wouldn’t have worked, having a strong king like Rider might have worked better.

        You could compare her with FSN-Archer, since their paths are very similar(here is Archer’s chant again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tlG2DUkSEw). Both at the end weren’t understood and betrayed. The only thing that was left were their ideals. Archer is just one step further, as he sacrificed his soul already to become a Counter Guardian, something Saber would become after she won the Holy Grail and changed her past. That is the contract she made with the world.

        Seeing her ideals and how selfless she is, is quite interesting once the viewer will see how similar Saber and Kiritsugu actually are. Then again I must laugh how she can see the flaws in Shirou and Archer’s lives, yet she can’t see she made and is making the same mistakes. I am looking forward to her confrontation with Kiritsugu.

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      • Might want to add one last (important) thing, Gil did. He was actually acknowledging Rider, even if it was just one line, that was just totally awesome.

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  3. To answer your question: I would rather have Saber as a ruler – someone who tried (didn’t succeed, but tried) to create an everlasting, peaceful, kingdom filled with righteousness and justice, which is represented in her words and her Noble Phantasm, Avalon, the Ever-distant Utopia. Whereas Gilgamesh destroyed his own kingdom, and Rider whose kingdom did not outlast his life, and dispersed into the sands, being split four ways after the tyrant died.

    Of the three present, during her reign, Saber was probably the best King to her people. Even if she did not understand them, she sacrificed everything for them. It is plausible to say that, while Rider and and Archer built a kingdom on earth, Saber built, for however short it was, a heaven on earth – a place of peace and prosperity that lasted a single lifetime.

    That is to say, Saber isn’t wrong either. Her dream is, by definition, impossible – which is why Rider labels it as a curse instead of a dream. What she tries to create, a literal heaven on earth, the ultimate utopia, cannot be done by any human, king or no. Not without sacrifices. And as Rider states, those that fell short of her dream, she abandoned, until her whole country turned on her. As a king who stood alone, she, ultimately, fought alone, fiercely guarding the little patch of heaven that sat beneath her feet.

    Although, for the single lifetime that short, sweet peaceful utopia existed, those that lived under her rule must have been happy. I say, I wouldn’t mind living under a country ruled by such a kind, just and righteous king.

    ===

    Random tangent about Saber’s wish and the conflict between her and Rider:

    I believe that Rider acknowledges Saber’s dream, albeit he also acknowledges it as impossible and foolhardy just as Saber states that only greedy brutes find pleasure in war and conquest, which is also true. But what he really has a problem with is Saber throwing away all those sacrifices she and her vassals made to support that short-lived utopia. Even if it was just for a lifetime, Saber should be proud of her accomplishments and kingship instead of throwing all of it away. I think what Rider truly dislikes about Saber is her lack of Kingly pride.

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    • “Although, for the single lifetime that short, sweet peaceful utopia existed, those that lived under her rule must have been happy. I say, I wouldn’t mind living under a country ruled by such a kind, just and righteous king.”

      When you put it that way… peace is always the most appealing option =D

      “I believe that Rider acknowledges Saber’s dream, albeit he also acknowledges it as impossible and foolhardy”

      I agree, I think that sometimes a ruler needs to be realistic and make tough decisions. Naturally, if Saber’s way of ruling were possible, life would be so much better.

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  4. I enjoyed the conversation, but I felt that Rider was unjustified in his final statement. Is Saber’s goal self destructive and ultimately impossible? Yes. I can also understand Rider’s anger at the implications of her wish, that it would throw away all the sacrifices and accomplishments of her and her subjects. I do not, however, believe that regretting her kingdom’s destruction should result in her being labeled “not worthy of being considered a king.” After all, Rider himself acknowledged he grieved over his kingdom’s loss. If he’s sad then that means his empire’s fate wasn’t one he would, ultimately, desire. Fact of the matter is he regrets at least a little how it ended up. Rider takes it to a healthier degree than Saber, but Saber’s wish by itself does not make her unworthy of her title and Rider is being hypocritical for saying she should not feel regret. But this isn’t supposed to be a heavy critique of Rider’s character. The man is still fundamentally human, after all, with his own biases and flaws. He’s awesome because of and despite them. It will certainly lead to interesting future interactions between the characters. It’s just his final words irked me a little, is all.

    Gilgamesh can, of course, go die in a fire. The man’s nothing but trouble.

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    • crap. i posted this below instead of in the reply box. can someone erase that?

      josephface: I see your point, but let me say a few words in Rider’s defence.
      How i see it, is that its not Saber regretting her end that caused Rider to say she was not a king, it was the fact that her wish is to use the holy grail to undue everything she and her people created and fought for. Rider is saddened that his kingdom didn’t last, but he would never make it so it never happened. He carried his men to the end of the earth for his desires, and he takes responsibility for that, and for his nation as a whole. Many of his men died along the journy for Alexander’s dream, and using the grail to undue that would be spitting on the sacrifice they made for him.
      That, i think is what really caused Rider to deny her, the fact that she would ignore the sacrifices the people under her made for her, and erase everything just because she didn’t like how it ended. We can really see how important Rider considers the kings bond with their people, as it is that bond that creates his mightiest power. Saber ignoring that bond is what really angered him, i believe.

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      • I understood that. I can see where Rider is coming from, it’s just I feel he’s uncalled for in saying Arturia is unworthy of her title. In truth, I don’t think Saber really ignored the king’s bond with the people. She was just distant about how she went about it, believing she had to serve them while being alone. What’s the motivation for her wish? To ensure her people’s happiness. Is she at all healthy about her obsession for it long after Camelot’s destruction? Oh my goodness no. I was all with Rider saying that trying to undo such things is foolish. I also agree with him that serving others to the near total exclusion of the self is also foolish.

        But Saber’s motivations are for her people’s happiness. She’s not erasing it simply because she didn’t like how she personally ended up, after all. She doesn’t want those she was supposed to protect to suffer. I do believe she should be talked away from her self destructive path, and I was happy she was in Fate/Stay, but I don’t fault her for having the desire. And I don’t think Alexander was justified in saying she was unworthy of her kingship because of it.

        Her reasons stem from her regret, which Rider chastised despite his own really roundabout admission he held some himself when he stated he grieved. From there it went on to erasing the sacrifice of her and her subjects. Nothing Alexander said on this subject I really disagreed with. But simply wishing her people happiness? I can’t fault her for that. And despite her self destructive path I don’t think Alexander was right to state Arturia is not a king.

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    • damn this reply system how do i…

      anyway. i agree with you that sabers wish to save her people was very pure and a very decent, amazing thing. That i think, is Riders point. Saber was someone who wanted to be a savior, who wanted to comfort the people who were suffering. There’s nothing wrong with that of course, but as Riders points out, its not a human path to be a pure martyr for your people. As king she needed to lead them, and to connect, for them to understand what she wanted. It wasn’t enough to just save them once or twice and be noble and holy. The main reason for Sabers downfall was because as King she was always cold and emotionless, never showing any feeling and being solemn and serious in everything, the perfect example of chivalry at all times. How can the people under her relate to that? They slowly began to distrust her, saying that she had no heart, that she couldn’t understand human feelings. Sabers wish was pure, but she wasn’t suited to being a leader who could inspire her soldiers to believe in her and empathize with her.

      If i had a leader who constantly stayed perfect at all times and never indulged in any of his luxuries, id get suspicious too. you would think that they were hiding something, or were different from you.

      Saber didn’t want to be a leader, she wanted to be a savior. While that is a beautiful thing, its not the same thing as leadership. I believe that’s why Rider decides not too acknowledge her.

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      • I do know all this. I do understand Alexander’s reasoning. But Rider is still wrong to say Saber was unworthy of being a king. The reason? Saber did lead and she did save. Simply because it all ended in fire doesn’t negate that she did both of those things. That, for a time, there was prosperity for Britain helps defend her position. This is the same for Alexander, for in his time there was also prosperity for his empire. Both of their times as kings give strong evidence for their positions.

        Not so much for Gilgamesh, though, considering he ran his country into the ground pretty quickly by his direct actions. But then again, he’s an asshole. Moving on…

        Rider’s way of kingship is not the only way. Fact of the matter is there’s no real way, because no way is perfect. Perfection is a goal to strive for, not something you actually reach. If I had to choose, I’d pick somewhere between Arturia and Alexander’s ideals for a leader I would follow.

        Again, I hold nothing against Rider. I’m not attacking him and I apologize if I’m coming off that way. I agree with pretty much everything else he said. I actually enjoy that there’s something I do not agree with him on. It makes his character even more interesting, and I look forward to even more interactions between him and Arturia. Well, that and I’ve read the books so I know his opinion of her is going to change a little, as does her opinion of him. This whole dialogue between the kings was really just knee jerk reactions all around.

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      • “damn this reply system how do i…”

        Lol… I wish I could help but… I guess the best thing to say right now is that we live and learn. =P

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  5. “It all ended in a fire.”

    Looking back, ultimately, all three of their kingdoms ended up burning to the ground after their monarch’s death/during their reigns. If we change the parameters a bit and judge them for how well they established their kingdoms, they all sucked equally.

    Saber: An impossible dream? WHAT DO YOU MEAN AVALON ISN’T REAL?!
    Rider: Who killed all my heirs? WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY ALL DIED IN BATTLE?!
    Archer: I can’t fit my kingdom in my treasury? THEN LET THE MONGRELS BURN HAHAHA!!

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    • I’d still say Gilgamesh’s sucked the most. Arturia had Morgan and Mordred messing things up and making the situation worse. Alexander died relatively young so things destabilized quickly. Gilgamesh? Neglected his kingdom and pretty much destroyed it with his own hands. Or near enough. And, you know, Alexander and Arturia didn’t go out and rape virgin women on their wedding nights as far as I know.

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  6. I would point out though that the whole basis of Saber’s wish is to basically fix the problems. She’s not spitting on the losses that were incurred when her country was “saved”. Instead if the grail is true, and the spirit and letter of her wish is made correctly, then she can create the ideal she wished for.

    For all the ruthlessness displayed by all the characters, Saber’s wish is the most ruthless of all. She’d be willing to change time, history, and fate to come to the desired end. Rather than creating a situation where there would be regrets over the loss of her followers, that would simply never have happened. They’d have lived and survived because the failures inherent in her kingdom would never have occurred in the first place.

    Also worth noting is that she’d be willing to kill (duel honorably) everyone she faces to get there. I mean all the heroes have that kind of code of belief or they wouldn’t be summoned but even so.

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  7. I am utterly disappointed with the author’s use of Assassin. They gave him a unique ability and utilized him in an ingenious scheme that could have (should have) enabled team Tokiomi to wipe out the competition. What follows is them failing at every chance they get and then slaughtered without fanfare to show off Rider’s new ability. Looking at the colorful personalities and motivations of the other servants, Assassin was a wasted character. I could almost accept their role as a plot device if it weren’t an idiot plot. Tokiomi and Kirei are allegedly smart people but at the speed their plan fell on it’s face it’s almost like that was their intention. And if they do in fact have some even more brilliant scheme that necessitated the death of Assassin then they were boneheads for taking the trouble to prepare their first plan! I’m curious to know how Kirei and Tokiomi are going to regard their epic failure.

    As for the meeting of kings, it seemed awfully forced and uneventful. It may be a part of Rider’s character that he has absolute confidence in himself and believes that the other servants would agree to his gathering but I couldn’t believe it. Saber is always serious business and expresses contempt at those with no morals (Castor and Kiritsugu) and those who don’t take the war seriously (Rider) so it was weird to see Saber partake in the tea party with only a little hesitation. Granted Saber is the noble servant so I guess I can handwave it but what I can’t handwave is Archer showing up. This is a man who flipped his shit because Berserker made him stand on even ground with him, and he deigns to drink wine from a broken barrel? Except for a few mongrel slurs he threw out he seemed to enjoy the other servants’ company when before he felt other servants didn’t even deserve to look at him. Had Rider insisted they discuss their philosophies of kingship at the beach I wouldn’t be surprised if Archer smirked and summoned his surfboard to prove his superiority. Everything about this scene reminded me of those OVA’s where all the characters act goofy and out of character and at the end of the day they go back to the real story as if nothing happened. The reason for the gathering was meaningful in that it helps develop character but the execution was forced. My reaction to this episode was similar to Iris and Waver. /my mind is full of fuck

    To answer the question of the week, I would choose Saber’s kingdom if only because the other two are run by unrepentant tyrants. Saber’s world view is very naive and I never understood what she hoped to achieve by getting the grail. A ruler who cares about his subjects is nice but the degree of Saber’s selflessness makes her seem more like a knight in service to a king than a king herself. Rider had a point about kings thinking of themselves as the most important people in the world because that’s how they really felt. That said, Rider’s philosophy is far from perfect. Despite his claim that all his soldiers loved him the real Alexander created a lot of hostility among his army from his out of control megalomania and warmongering. Gilgamesh is a total sociopath so nothing to say there.

    On and unrelated note, did anyone else think it was weird that Saber was sitting on the ground with Iris, hugging and holding hands? Looks like she took those ‘little girl’ comments to heart.

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    • Tokiomi is not that stupid… It’s a miscalculation. They have never expected Rider to be able to conjure Reality Marble, which only top level mage can perform. If it’s not for that, they would have great terrain advantage because of all the plants and castle walls. And in emergency, he can force Archer to participate in killing Saber and Rider.
      But alas, all of them are engulfed, and Tokiomi can’t even tell what happened in there.

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  8. I also agree with rider. A leader is not a messiah. Also, the point where a leader must not regret his decisions especially if people died because of it is important, because if he did, people will doubt his future decisions. The only way for a King is forward.

    Btw this episode happened after Kiritsugu left to hunt down Kayneth. I thought that was a bit simple to see. I don’t see why you thought it was confusing.

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  9. I’ll have more to say later but for now this contrast between kings draws a parallel between noble morality and herd morality. King Arthur is reduced to some idealistic messiah who denies life with his sacrifices, whereas Ikskander is a classic strong noble who affirms life with his actions.

    Also, some of the commentors here need to study Hellenic history a bit and expand their vision beyond the paradigm of Great Man theory of history.

    More later.

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  10. your analysis sucks. wtf is this garbage?

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