Fate/Zero – 13 (Final) Review

Episode 13 (Final) – The Forbidden Banquet

Well, it was definitely no shocker that the show had decided to end on a cliffhanger as multiple teams gang up to take down their common enemy – Caster.

It was definitely the most logical way to end the series with the last scene having left people wanting for more. The unsatisfying part for me was the fact that it had taken the series 13 episodes of character development to get to the start of a major battle in the Holy Grail War.

Review

This episode had taken on a sentimental note as we explored the relationship between Caster/Ryunosuke and Rider/Waver.

Caster and Ryunosuke

I couldn’t help but found it amusing how Caster’s and Ryu’s chat over God’s existence had so happened to air on Christmas. It was particularly interesting to watch Ryu’s mind in action as he worked around his twisted mindset to the connections that he had made over the existence of God. It had definitely given us an insight as to how his mind seems to twist logic to suit his purpose whilst exciting Caster as the same time. This was definitely a moment of watching a psychopath in action. I loved it!

I had always seen the dynamics in the relationship between Caster and Ryu to be somewhat reversed with Caster being the dominating character in that pair. However, this episode had showed us that the real driving force behind the pair’s actions is actually Ryu’s personality, while Caster merely magnifies everything that Ryu beliefs. (I know that it took me 13 episode to see this fact, call me slow if you wish)

As for how I felt about the scene… Well, I had a lot of fun observing how the individual characters had reacted to what the other had said. Ryu’s crying over what had taken place in their hideout was funny, while the information that Caster had divulge regarding his past had showed us a more human and connectable side to his character as we get to see his insecurities. This particular scene was probably created as a way to build up our interest in the pair as they are nearing the end of their life span in the series since we haven’t had too many personal interactive moments between Caster and Waver over the course of the season, and because of that I felt like I could appreciate the scene even more.

Rider and Waver

“Awwwww…”

Yes, that was the thought that had came to mind whilst watching the pair. =D

The scene on the hill had definitely struck a sentimental chord within me and I couldn’t help but feel all warm and fuzzy over their bonding session. The way in which Rider had to reaffirmed Waver of his “importance” in their relationship whilst Waver was starting to lose faith in himself was very touching to watch. We are shown a softer and more nostalgic side to Rider as he tries to relive his life while at the same time, Waver is shown a glimpse into Rider’s heart and dreams.

Perhaps it was the setting of the sun as the sky grew darker, or perhaps it was the way the framing of the scene had distance itself from the actual personal chat between the two as we are shown a more observational view of the pair. Whatever it was, I really liked watching that moment on the street/hill. The execution of the framing was done in a effective manner that had reflected that particular moment. To illustrate the distance in the pair the camera takes a long shot of the scene, but when the time came for the bonding between the pair as Waver shows us his insecurities and Rider reassures him of his existence, the camera becomes more personal and upfront with closeup shots of the two.

I am going to miss this pair of idiots as we wait for the second season of Fate/Zero to air.

The Gathering

Yay for the reappearance of my favourite servant – Lancer.

It is interesting how Rider had gone around telling everyone about Caster as it had showed us that Rider really does have a strong sense team spirit (either that or one can see it as him being a bossy leader that treats all the other servants as part of his army).

Although I did like seeing Lancer, Rider and Saber working together, it gets quite tiring when most of the battles consist of only 3 (or a handful of) main parties whilst the rest remain forgotten in the background. I never really expected an all out massive brawl between every pairing in this series, but I did hope that if battles did happen, we would see some sort of end to them instead of characters constantly running away. I mean, the only true “end” to a character that we’ve seen in the show is the end of Assassin’s character. But even then, the show/Grail couldn’t let go of Kirei’s role in the War. Well, if the preview for the next episode is as straightforward as it seems, the next season should start off with a big bang as more servant/master pairs join the battle against Caster.

Back to the gathering. Damn was Cater’s monster huge. The first impression that came to mind was… “oh no, Godzilla is going to destroy everything”. =P It is probably obvious by now, but I guess that Caster’s spell book did heal itself after the battle against Saber and Lancer.

Well, whatever the case is with the amount of parties involved in this battle, it is good to know that the next season would start off with an fast paced action scene that should blow our minds if animation of the battle between Berserker and Archer is anything to go by.

Overall

I would like to say that I had expected more out of the episode, but I had seen this coming so I can’t really say that. Although it was an enjoyable episode, I did hope that instead of more character development (since the whole season has revolved around it thus far) we would have instead seen an end to the whole chase after Caster and Ryu. After seeing what we’ve seen through the season, I would have much preferred if the episode covering Rin and her escapades had been left out in order to make room for the big battle. As the bonding scene between Caster and Ryu had seemed like a “last tribute” scene as they near their end, I am hoping that the bonding between Rider and Waver in this episode was not done for the same reason as well.

Episode Rating: 7.5/10

Series Rating: 7/10 – All in all, it was a good season (albeit the heavy dialogue and some not so great moments).

Another series has finally come to an end, and hopefully I’ll see you guys when the next season of Fate/Zero airs. =)

If you have the time, please check out our other reviews. =) I hope that you have enjoyed reading the reviews as much as I have enjoyed writing them (and if you hadn’t then… I apologise). Oh, and I would just like to say that I had plenty of fun reading the discussions over each episode each week. =)

Take care folks! and Merry Christmas to all!

-ra

Ra’s Fate/Zero Question of the Week:

How did the series fair in your mind? Will you be watching the next season?

About Saranaufogus

An Anime fan who can't seem to keep her thoughts to herself. Find me on: Instagram | Twitter

Posted on December 25, 2011, in Anime, Fate/Zero, Reviews and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink. 24 Comments.

  1. I suppose this was as good a place as any to pause but the whole 13 episode season is really irritating. Was anyone in doubt that there would be a second season? Why not just have 26 episodes or however long it takes? We won’t see another episode until April… If not for your email updates, I might forget about the show in that time. If they can’t finish the show in the next season and waste our time with another 13 episode season + 3 month break, I’m going to be flipping tables left and right! 😛

    Caster and Ryuunosuke comforting each other through their grief was highly amusing. Caster’s voice actor is a master of being hammy and his insane ranting was something to see. I suppose Ryuunosuke’s philosophy is “If someone could enjoy doing such twisted things so much, there must be a god to allow that”. It’s crazy how well Caster and Ryuunosuke suit each other. Too bad Saber didn’t get paired with a more like minded master, lol. With Caster and presumably his master’s death soon to come, isn’t it strange that Ryuunosuke hasn’t interacted with a single other character yet? His one meeting with Rin wasn’t even in the novel. Maybe the writer figures since Caster and Ryuunosuke are so alike, any interaction they had with others would be virtually the same.

    Rider and Waver had some good characterization and Rider has such wild eyes when talking about something that interests him. It didn’t seem like Waver got over his inferiority complex though…

    Hopefully the next season will be full of battles that actually end instead of what we had this season. 13 episodes and the only character that died was of zero significance and he was casually sacrificed. (I will never forgive the waste of potential for Assassin!) Not that I wanted Caster to die but I’m convinced that Lancer could easily have killed him the first time they met. If he can hit Castor from the bank of the river (really far away!) then he could have thrown his lance before to earn Kayneth a bonus command spell.

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    • @both Ren and Saranaufogus

      Careful, it was announced from the start that Fate/Zero gets >one< season with about 25 episodes. It was new that they splitted up the season in two halves to get more time. I don't really know why so many people mix that up, since ufotable announced that very early and clearly. There won't be another season.

      "Too bad Saber didn’t get paired with a more like minded master, lol."

      Um… she did. Kiritsugu and Saber have similar thoughts, their methods how to achieve their goal only differ. Perhaps it would have been better if Kiritsugu had talked to Saber more than three times during the whole war.

      "Not that I wanted Caster to die but I’m convinced that Lancer could easily have killed him the first time they met."

      Hey, it's for show. He wanted to have his glorious hero moment to say how awesome he and Saber are… -_-

      All this crap about honor, elegance and chivalry – I'm sick of seeing and hearing this. This is war, no one cares how they kill or die, the result is important.

      "Hopefully the next season will be full of battles"

      Believe me, you're glad for seeing all the Masters and Servants get a bit more character development. I don't know how often and to how many people I have told that now, but since it was clear that FZ ends with 25 episodes and since only one Servant got killed during the first half, most of the characters will die like flies in the second half, since we know that not many participants survived this war.

      We're now at the beginning of volume 3 and it ended after only 38 hours(story time wise), making it the shortest volume of all 4. You'll get plenty of battles.

      "I will never forgive the waste of potential for Assassin"

      What potential…? It's not like he was ever a real threat. The only Master he could have easily killed was Uryu. All the other Masters were too strong, hidden, behind boundary fields or too close to their Servants.

      Blame Tokiomi and Gil for their arrogance to not finish off their opponents, when they got the chance. But hey, an antagonist like Gil will never win, since he has a story-breaker ability and that would be boring, wouldn't it? 🙂

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      • Even if Kiritsugu and Saber allegedly have similar goals, their differences in attitude and methodology make them a poor fit. It doesn’t help that he’s a jerk to her for no other reason than he thinks she should have Fate/Stayed in the kitchen instead of accepting her destiny as a king.

        The thing about Assassin is he is just too good at what he does. His ability to split up his soul makes him even better at killing masters (but useless against servants) than the FSN one. There were ample opportunities to strike at Waver, Kariya, Ryuunosuke and even Kiritsugu when their servants weren’t at their side but they didn’t for plot contrivances. They never utilize their stealth ability effectively and they only made one half assed attempt to kill a master. The only reason Assassin doesn’t completely change the game is because Tokiomi is stupid and Kirei only follows orders. I’d think Tokiomi would put Assassin to more use considering Gilgamesh is such a wildcard. The most disappointing thing about Assassin, however, is that they made every servant except him well developed and memorable. He was a plot device, not a character and I think that was truly a waste of potential.

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  2. I am actually really glad that they didn’t sacrifice the source material just to spice up the end of the first half and feed the fanboys who only care about action. This is not the end to Fate Zero season 1, this is just a pause in the overall story of Fate Zero. This episode was very faithful to the novel and i had a feeling they would end the first half here. My only problem was that they did not really show much of Wavers dream about Rider. In the novel, it is a vision of Riders life and conquest, and how people began to flock to his charisma and dream. They cut it down greatly, which is understandable, if disappointing. I am glad that they did introduce the concept of “Oceanus” and how it ties into Riders dream and life.

    Once again a minor detail was not really explained, that changes the way the situation is viewed. This isnt Lancer/Saber/Rider VS Caster, this is Lancer/Saber/Rider VS Sea Demon. In the novel its explained that Caster has not “powered up” or somehow gotten stronger then before, its just that he’s doing something even crazier then previously. Any mage good at summoning can call a super powerful Cthulu demon like the one Caster has summoned. The reason they don’t however, is because only the most incredibly powerful mage would have any chance of controlling it. Caster however, doesn’t care about controlling it. He is just calling the strongest Demon he can and letting it do whatever it wants to with Zero (lol) restrictions.

    This detail changes the scene, because it makes it clear that the monster is in control here, not Caster. The only thing that demon will do is kill everything around it, very quickly. That’s why the Saber, Rider and Lancer agree to team up, because this is a crisis, not just a new fight with Caster.

    P.S. To those worrying about the lack of action, rest assured. This is the start of a huge, major battle, and we will have LOTS of action in the second half. I know 3 months is a long ass wait, but patience is a virtue and it will pay off big time when Fate Zero continues in April.

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    • …most probably …cut from… the broadcast… …blu-ray …will probably bring back Waver’s entire dream sequence, and then some more. 😀

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  3. Wait, when exactly did Assassin have an opportunity to kill Kiritsugu? If they had found Kiritsugu, Kirei would have confronted him(note: they didn’t track him down, the only exception was when Kirei arrived in the Einzbern forest, but boundary fields remove Assassin’s Presence Concealment and ruin their element of surprise-trump card). And even then, if Kirei in his weaker FSN form was strong enough to beat True Assassin in HF, then Kiritsugu is more than strong enough to deal with 1/80 of the hundred-faced Assassin.

    Assassins are already weak. 1/80 of ONE Assassin Servant is even weaker. I doubt strong spellcasters or magi like Kiritsugu or Kayneth would have any problems with them.

    About Kariya: Berserker is by his side, it’s not like he is defenseless. Besides that, just like in Kiritsugu’s case, it’s also Kirei’s own decision whether they are supposed to attack Kariya or not, but that’s only the plot excuse.

    About Waver: You seem to forget that Rider possesses one of the best perceptions in this war. One Assassin already tried to kill Waver and he failed. Rider was nearly the whole time by Waver’s side and the two of them were almost impossible to track down because of the chariot. Don’t really see an opportunity where he could have killed Waver.

    About Ryuunosuke: I already said that, he is the only one they could have killed…

    Plotwise you are right. They didn’t elaborated his character very much(only in character materials, but it’s not like the majority buys them, lol). I guess he wouldn’t have fit in, that’s why Nasu and Butch decided to not give him too much development. The scene with the lost Assassin-child Waver and Rider found (http://images.wikia.com/typemoon/images/b/b3/Smallassassin.jpg) was scrapped.

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    • I thought the point of Assassin’s ability was to be able to sneak through boundary fields without being detected where another servant would fail. The first assassin certainly had a cakewalk through Tokiomi’s defense system. You say one assassin is very weak but Kirei only sent one to kill Tokiomi (the assassin was also confident that he could do it). Even if they are weak, why send just one? Send 10 or 20 and Kiritsugu would be toast.You can’t really use Kirei as a standard for human competence because, well, he has superhuman level abilities not limited to palm-thrusting through trees and deflecting bullets with his wrists.

      I’ll grant your point on Waver being hard to track because Kiritsugu said as much but not for the others. There are way more times when Saber ISN’T around Kiritsugu than when she is. The whole using Iris as a decoy seemed to be a bad idea as it didn’t fool Tokiomi or Kirei, the more dangerous opponents. (Even though Kayneth didn’t know who Kiritsugu was, they still ended up fighting…) It would be pretty easy to catch Kiritsugu alone. It’s difficult to say whether or not they could have killed Kariya because I don’t know how fast he can summon Berserker or if Berserker would even be interested in protecting him. He seemed pretty vulnerable when meeting Aoi and Kiritsugu said he would be easy to pick off, he just didn’t want to. For Ryuunosuke, it’s not just they could have killed him, they should have. Why they didn’t use Assassin to find him and Gilgamesh to kill him or Castor (to get back the wasted command spell) is a mystery.

      I think you put too much stock in a servant’s ability to protect their master. A servant could certainly defeat an assassin, but that’s quite a different thing than stopping them before they sink a dagger in their master’s throat. In the gathering of kings episode a assassin materializes right behind Waver and… stands there. Rider was in no position to protect him, nor was Saber to protect Iris. Self preservation isn’t even an issue, send 30 assassins to kill Waver and suddenly it is no longer important to know what Rider’s Noble Phantasm was. The logic this show follows is that a servant can protect their master because for some reason, Assassin is compelled to attack other servants when it would be so much easier to attack their vulnerable masters.

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      • “I thought the point of Assassin’s ability was to be able to sneak through boundary fields without being detected where another servant would fail. The first assassin certainly had a cakewalk through Tokiomi’s defense system.”

        No, that is not true. Assassin would have lost his Presence Concealment if he wanted to sneak inside the Einzbern forest. It was explicitly mentioned that they were finally able to sneak in during the banquet because Rider destroyed the boundary field after he broke through with his chariot by force. And Assassin was no longer invisible when he went through Tokiomi’s garden.

        You overestimate Presence Concealment. Once Assassin attacks or tries something like breaking through a boundary field(which takes 3 hours for the talented Kiritsugu to break through Tohsaka’s field!), his ability is useless.

        “You say one assassin is very weak but Kirei only sent one to kill Tokiomi (the assassin was also confident that he could do it). ”

        He was the weakest one out of the 80 Assassins. At least that’s what the female Assassin said. Besides that, the only purpose of this action was to fool everyone anyway, including the sacrificed Assassin who was just showing off.

        “Send 10 or 20 and Kiritsugu would be toast.”

        They. Didn’t. Find. Him.

        He might be dead if they outnumber him, that’s correct, but that is pointless if they don’t know where he is. Also, Kiritsugu was alarmed the moment he saw another Assassin in episode 4 and also Kirei’s own intentions play an important role.

        Saber was also aware of Assassin being alive(not that she or Iri ever knew he died) and when they appeared, she already guessed with her instincts that she could take care of all of them(yes, even with the injured arm) if they wouldn’t be a threat for Iri. So yeah, call them Servants if you want, but they are only cannon fodder.

        “The whole using Iris as a decoy seemed to be a bad idea as it didn’t fool Tokiomi or Kirei, the more dangerous opponents. (Even though Kayneth didn’t know who Kiritsugu was, they still ended up fighting…) ”

        He fooled Tokiomi. And he also fooled Kayneth and that played an important role in their whole fight, as Kayneth would have taken Kiritsugu seriously if he had known that Kiritsugu was a Master and not just some random hired mercenary with machine guns(yes, he didn’t even think Kiritsugu could use magic, that’s why he was a bit surprised when Kiritsugu used Time Alter-Reality Marble).

        Kirei btw never told Tokiomi anything about his little adventure in the forest or at the Hyatt Hotel, he is supposed to stay inside the church. And it might surprise you, but Kayneth is the strongest magus in this war. Tokiomi is inferior to him and Kiritsugu saw Kayneth as the second most dangerous Master, besides Kirei.

        Fun fact btw: Both Lancers get the strongest Magi in both wars(Kayneth and Bazett), but they somehow end up with the worst possible ones at the same time and their wishes for honorable fights was never fulfilled. Being Lancer is suffering.

        “In the gathering of kings episode a assassin materializes right behind Waver and… stands there. ”

        Show effect by ufotable I guess. I have seen a lot of stupidity in the whole Nasuverse, but if the absolute order is “victory no matter what sort of losses”, then I am sure, they would have tried to attack immediately as this was their intention actually – corner Rider by threatening Waver.

        Not to mention thanks to her instincts, Saber can feel killing intent and not surprisingly it wasn’t directed at Saber or Iri, so it is logical why she didn’t notice them very early.

        Btw, did I actually mention that killing too many entities might kill Assassin immediately or at least make him insane, as he loses parts of his soul with every killed body?

        This Assassin just isn’t suited for fights or even assassinations, that is all. You might say he is an exception of the 19 Hassans, as it’s pretty much impossible for him to win the war alone. True Assassin in Heaven’s Feel – that’s how strong and how an Assassin is supposed to act and Kirei beat him to a pulp, although you might say he cheated, since Assassin’s NP didn’t work on Kirei.

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    • I think the fact that True Assassin killed Lancer and the master of Caster in HF proves it’s not quite the useless servant you make him out to be. I guess I’m having trouble reconciling the competency of Assassin in FSN with the utter incompetence of Assassin and the idiocy of his master in Fate. The Assassin class is inept even at assassinations?

      Watch episodes 2 and 3 again. In 2 Assassin carefully navigates and disables Tokiomi’s boundary field. In 3 Maiya specifically says it’s odd that he was discovered so quickly considering he had the presence concealment ability. It’s not a matter of being invisible or not, it’s the reaction time between when the servant enters and the master is alerted. If Presence Concealment were to be deactivated upon entering a boundary field, then it’s a useless ability as every mage worth their salt has one.

      I don’t think the assassins could defeat Saber, I don’t think they could defeat rider. What I do think is they could use overwhelming numbers to take down a master or two. Let’s say you split them up evenly and sent 39 assassins (they’re disposable so that whole insanity thing isn’t an issue) after Iris and Waver. Use a command spell to send them on a suicidal attack, completely disregarding Saber and Rider, only to attack their masters. I don’t think Saber or Rider could defend against 39 attackers coming from all sides (especially considering Assassin can throw their knives). So, which is the superior plan? Sacrifice a servant to potentially kill 2 masters (who have limited combat ability) as well as their powerful servants, or throw them all away to reveal the ability of one servant? It’s all speculative but I believe my suggestion would have worked better and for a larger gain. For the sake of interesting story telling I wish Assassin, who was trumped up to be important, actually amounted to something.

      Team Tohsaka have the strongest servant and a genius gambit (that was horribly executed) to use another servant to find and kill masters, and yet they are too cautious to take the most obvious initiatives to win the war. It’s going to take a lot of mismanagement and general incompetence to explain why they haven’t steamrolled the competition yet.

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      • About True Assassin: He basically has a one-hit kill, similar to Lancer. Obviously I see him as someone very dangerous, I’ve praised his worthiness in my last comment. However, he is not suitable for direct combat and we all know that. He can fulfill his task to kill Masters very good, compared to FZ-Assassin.

        “In 2 Assassin carefully navigates and disables Tokiomi’s boundary field. ”

        Um, yeah, good for him. I never said he is incompetent. I just said he’s totally weak. Also, it depends on the boundary field you make. The most popular types are high-defensive walls, while others only use fields which immediately detect others. Not to mention that Tokiomi willingly lowered the defenses so everyone could see how Gil owned Assassin.

        Also, that was only the first defensive measure. A true magus’s boundary field and atelier should be as strong as Kayneth’s at the hotel. Just make sure, you make it on solid ground and not on the xyzth floor, where you can blow it up with the building…

        “In 3 Maiya specifically says it’s odd that he was discovered so quickly considering he had the presence concealment ability. ”

        Presence Concealment in this case means, that you cannot “feel” his presence. He still loses his invisibility and cannot go into spirit form here. It’s like you are using a radar and he cannot be seen on it. That is also true in ep4, where no one noticed Assassin on the crane, except for Kiritsugu who foresaw that someone would you this excellent spot for watching. Maybe I shouldn’t have said Presence Concealment is completely useless, but it’s almost.

        “Let’s say you split them up evenly and sent 39 assassins (they’re disposable so that whole insanity thing isn’t an issue) after Iris and Waver. ”

        Do you mean at the banquet or before? Before, it wasn’t possible, since they would have had to either enter Iri’s boundary field(note: the Einzbern forest is a wonderful defensive measure, it still was in FSN) and lose their advantage or in Waver’s case where they didn’t find him before. I assume, they found him when Rider got some water samples from the river and had to go back in his materialized form.

        At the banquet… well, we know what happened. Ionian Hetairoi ftw. Else, I’m sure they might have had a great advantage over Rider and Saber, as they could have killed Iri(which would be incredibly stupid to kill the vessel btw) and Waver.

        “I don’t think Saber or Rider could defend against 39 attackers coming from all sides (especially considering Assassin can throw their knives). ”

        Um, okay. I actually agreed with you on that point before partially. That was the intention of surrounding them with the Assassin army and Tokiomi knew they couldn’t defend their Masters from all directions. I’m pretty sure, Saber and Rider are strong enough to take on all of them if they wouldn’t have to protect someone. As I’ve said before, Saber thought she could still take on all of them, but she dropped that thought, since she knew she isn’t only protecting herself.

        If Rider hadn’t a NP that overkilled Assassin and saved them all, then Tokiomi would have been glad, since he got rid of possibly two(well, actually only 1, once he realizes Iri isn’t Saber’s Master and that he effecticely ended the war) Masters and their Servants, that is all. He saw it as a win-win situation.

        Indeed, Tokiomi has the strongest Servant on his side. And if he wanted to, Gil would end the war in one day. Nasu just made him too strong and then the “blabla, he’s too arrogant, that’s his greatest weakness” excuse comes. It also works on Tokiomi with his elegance bullshit.

        However, Assassin is still imo not capable for even killing the Masters.

        Now that Gil has awakened Kirei’s own interests in the war and made him into a possible enemy of Tokiomi’s, Tokiomi’s “perfect”(funny, similar to Rin, everything he does seems to be perfect, but when it comes to the most crucial situation he fails, whether it’s his family/Sakura or his war tactics) plan is disturbed and he isn’t even aware of this.

        Tokiomi’s greatest advantage(besides Gil) are both Kotomines. I mean, he has the judge and a very sttrong Executor on his side. He was just too overconfident to think he doesn’t need Assassin anymore.

        We could discuss that matter, whether FZ-Assassin was truly capable of killing the Masters or not until the end of next year, but we’ll never know the answer, since by now everything is only speculative. I think it’s good to make a cut here, even though to me that was an interesting and entertaining conversation we had. Anyway, I wish all of you a happy new year. 🙂

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  4. One last note:

    “If Presence Concealment were to be deactivated upon entering a boundary field, then it’s a useless ability as every mage worth their salt has one.”

    Depends on how strong the boundary field is. True Assassin was able to break through the Emiya residence without being noticed. Iri’s field is much stronger, she is one of the most capable magi in the 4th war. The leylines, which are as strong as the ones at the Tohsaka and Matou mansion, also help, that’s why the Einzberns actually bought the land, including the forest.

    Again, I shouldn’t really say Presence Concealment is a weak ability. In this case however, all the Assassins are left useless, since Iri can easily feel anyone who enters(her connection with the field is very strong, as we saw that when Rider forcefully heavily damaged the field, Iri was hurt). Generally, you also need some force to enter the field and normally you need to find a starting point first, even though I think this rule is not really important for Assassins.

    About True Assassin vs Lancer in HF: Lancer was ambushed by the shadow, iirc. He put a very good fight against Assassin and would have killed him if he wasn’t just scouting (limited by Kirei’s two Command Spells) and was attacked by the shadow.

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  5. Urgh… To many argument here.
    I wonder if people would read them all.
    There’s nothing wrong with making Gilgamesh too damn strong,
    because according to legend and wikipedia, Gilgamesh is 2/3 god and 1/3 human.
    LOL.
    That’s why Tokiomi laughed haughtly, “we have won this war.”
    King Arthur, Alexander, and others are just mere human.

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    • Making someone too strong means you have to find an excuse why you could beat him. I’m aware of Gil’s divinity, but Gate of Babylon is the most overpowered Noble Phantasm ever. Ea is the strongest sword that rips even dimensions away and against divine beings, he has Enkidu.

      Nasu said it himself, Gil can win the war in one day. It would be more exciting if some guy exists in the 4th or 5th war who is equal to Gil’s NPs. And no, UBW or Knight of Honor are not countermeasures to Gate of Babylon. Heracles might have been a worthy opponent, but a) he was a Berserker in FSN and b) he is divine.

      And no, Alexander has some divinity. According to legends, he descends from Zeus. He is not a mere human.

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      • Indeed, the author kind of wrote himself into a corner as to how Gilgamesh could possibly lose when he is so powerful. They could easily have toned down on the strength of his Noble Phantasms to make him tough but with weaknesses that could be exploited. Arrogance is just another word for stupidity. He has storybreaking powers of epic (pun intended) proportions!

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      • He even have ‘UFO’ during Fate Zero, lol.
        That’s why I said they should have put Son Go Kong into this series.
        That would really be a worthy opponent of him.
        Who cares if he’s fictional, Arthur is supposed to be a guy to begin with.

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      • Which makes Arthuria a fictional character as well.

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      • which makes me wonder why kiritsugu wouldn’t just give saber her bloody avalon in the first place, even going so far as to conceal its presence from her. with avalon’s nigh invulnerability and kiritsugu suppling that required mana, whats to stop them from winning the war in one day? what is the benefit of letting irisviel have it?

        can any of you fate experts enlight me on this?

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      • You already said it, he made Iri promise to not tell Saber anything about Avalon. Kiritsugu cannot trust Saber. I’ve said it before, he can understand Saber and her morals very well, that’s why he cannot completely entrust her the task to protect Iri.

        Protecting Iri has the highest priority in this war, besides defeating the other participants. We already saw what happened when Saber left Iri alone. She (although willingly) was attacked by Kirei and nearly got killed.

        Now there might be another discussion why he just didn’t tell Saber about Iri’s importance, but I’m sure if he had told her, she would have refused to fight on and that was not his intention.

        @eterychan

        Sun Wukong… what would he be…? A Lancer? Probably not. A Caster? Is a shapeshifter really a Caster? I doubt he fulfills the condition of being a Caster – a magus. He doesn’t fit in the class system and because of his supernatural nature, he could be given some sort of divinity, making him vulnerable to Enkidu.

        Btw, I think it’s not good to spoil contents of the second half. At least use a spoiler tag for FZ spoilers. And also, beings who are clearly fiction cannot be summoned in the Grail Wars. People who appear in the Nasuverse are not considered fiction. Someone like EMIYA or Arcueid could be summoned, as long as they reside on the Throne of Heroes. King Arthur(or in the Nasuverse the genderswapped Artoria) or Diarmuid are legends and folktales, not clear fiction.

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      • ‘iri’s importance’ is the part i don’t get actually. but maybe it will be explained more in the latter half of the series. are you saying that kiritsugu can’t win the grail without her? but the other teams don’t have an iri’s equivalent and they are not worried.

        maybe sunwukong can be a berserker…if not than lancer is the next best thing i guess

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      • answering your question will be a big spoiler for people who haven’t finished FZ and FSN, ling.
        *spoiler*
        Iri is the vessel (container) for Holy Grail.
        If the container is broken, what’s the point to continue the war?
        That’s why her survival is really important to Kiri.
        Other family don’t know about this matter.
        Only Einzbern, Tohsaka and Matou (Makiri) know, because these family are the ones who set up Holy Grail War in Fuyuki CIty. They are rivals yet partners in crime.
        *end of spoiler*
        Son Go Kong can become Lancer, even if his weapon is a stick. Gilgamesh doesn’t have bow and arrows, but throw his weapon collection around, yet he passed as an archer.
        I guess you half are correct. He is clearly a fiction, a novel character created by a Chinese author. Servants, at least, has to be legend, folk tales, folklore, in which there are people who still believing of them as real person.
        Buuut…! Come on, is there anyone who think Medusa and Pegasus exist in real life? 🙂 I think it’s just a matter of ‘want to’ or ‘not want to’ put Son Go Kong in this fiction.
        I heard that Li Shu Wen appears a Servant in the video game. That’s great. I like Ba Ji Quan.

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      • Yeah, I didn’t want to explain “Iri’s importance” because it’s too spoilerish. If one has read/watched FSN before, the answer is quite clear.

        “Son Go Kong can become Lancer, even if his weapon is a stick. ”

        Not so sure about this, since in the other wars, a Lancer clearly had a lance. However, Fate/Apocrypha might change things.

        “Gilgamesh doesn’t have bow and arrows”

        He does. He just sees no reason to use them. Actually, in Fate/Prototype, his NP are two swords which can be connected to become a bow.

        “He is clearly a fiction, a novel character created by a Chinese author. ”

        I actually never said anything about him being clear fiction or not. I just said the obvious fact that clearly fictional characters cannot be summoned. 🙂

        “Buuut…! Come on, is there anyone who think Medusa and Pegasus exist in real life? ”

        Believe me, in the Nasuverse such things can exist, as they come from the “Age of Gods”. Shinsos, vampires and magi, anyone? That is Nasu’s world. And in his world Medusa and Pegasus existed. With Nasu’s logic, one could say Sun Wukong could have existed actually… ;D

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  6. I agree with ren the assassin chances of winning the war was high but kirei failed to use it since he had no desire to win the war. As for assassin in ep 2 his Presence Concealment wasn’t completely turn off. Assassin Presence Concealment is a A+ It is possible to disappear completely and become almost impossible to be detected. However, efficacy will decrease once preparations to attack are taken. Which mean the assassin PC was still on but he just wasn’t able to disappear completely because he have to get through the barrier. As for him getting discover that was kirei telling his master where assassin would be.

    All assassin can move through any barrier without being detected and Irisviel didn’t sense them not even once in the first season when she was in the barrier. That is almost the same barrier that Shirou has around his house in fate stay night and HF assassin easily went through the barrier without being detected.

    FZ assassin would have no problem killing master if they have the right master.
    ep 5 you have three master wasn’t near their servant berserker master, lancer master and archer master.

    Kiritsugu would have been perfect master for the assassin.

    Like ren said they gave the assassin a unique ability and they didn’t allow them to use right.

    One of FZ assassin ability was called Expert of Many Specializations
    A+: A total of 32 different skills ranging from tactics, academia, espionage, assassination, swindling, rhetoric and others can be used with proficiency of Rank B or above. (Assassin achieves this by arbitrary changing between his multiple personalities).

    That and intelligence network by the assassin Kiritsugu would have use these ability without fail.

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    • The Einzberns’ field WAY surpasses Kiritsugu’s field in his residence. It was mainly used to detect other enemies, as Saber in FSN noted. I am completely aware of Assassin’s PC rank.

      “As for assassin in ep 2 his Presence Concealment wasn’t completely turn off. ”

      I never said that. I said he had to materialize to break through the field.

      “As for him getting discover that was kirei telling his master where assassin would be. ”

      Do you read my comments, actually? I already said they did whatever they did to fool everyone. I don’t know what you’re trying to tell me.

      “All assassin can move through any barrier without being detected and Irisviel didn’t sense them not even once in the first season when she was in the barrier. ”

      That is ABSOLUTELY not true. It depends on how strong the field is. Ilya already showed how effective her boundary field was in detection of enemies in all 3 FSN routes. Iri greeted Kirei at the end of her boundary field in ep8. In ep11 it… ah, screw it. I already said it 2-3 times.

      “That is almost the same barrier that Shirou has around his house in fate stay night and HF assassin easily went through the barrier without being detected.”

      *sigh*… Again, what are you trying to tell me? I already said that.

      “ep 5 you have three master wasn’t near their servant berserker master, lancer master and archer master. ”

      1. Archer…? You do know, Kirei and Tokiomi are cooperating at this point, don’t you? And I still say, Assassin would have serious problems to break through a high-class boundary field. Why exactly do you think the Assassins didn’t try to enter Caster’s lair?`Exactly, they feared his Territory Creation skill and only entered when Rider entered first. No one knew Caster is a weakling.

      2. Uh… yeah. Do you honestly think they would have found Kariya at this point? His appearance was absolutely unexpected. It’s not like they have a radar to find every Master. We know Kariya was not inside Kayneth’s boundary field but watched the battle like Sola-Ui with a familiar.

      3. About Kayneth: That might be true. After all, Kiritsugu also had the chance to kill Kayneth immediately. However, we do not know whether he already activated Volumen Hydragyrum and that Mystic Code is superior to the Assassins. Besides, EVERYONE would have been aware of Assassin still being alive if he had tried to kill Kayneth right now. That was not Tokiomi’s intention. Unawareness is one of the main factors in this war.

      “One of FZ assassin ability was called Expert of Many Specializations”

      That is due to the many personalities he possesses, read what you copy and paste. However, their abilities are split and shared, the only exception is Presence Concealment. And also, what exactly does that have to do with the fact that they wouldn’t be able to kill almost anyone? Weak stays weak.

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  7. it could have been better!! Right now I’m starting the second season of the show and I’m hoping that everything would be right this time according to my interests! I still feel bad about Saber’s personality! 😦 good thing she’s kawaiiii

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